You are not welcome here part II

This is a continuation of my previous post, about the two Royal Marine Commandos turned away from a Walkabout bar in Liverpool for being in uniform (they were in uniform because they had attended the funeral of a fallen Royal Marine). 

I was at work when I read the article, researched a bit, wrote the post, and called the bar in England.  Because of being at work, I didn't elaborate as much as I would have liked to on my conversation with Jack.  Jack was the employee of Walkabout in Liverpool that I spoke with, my first reporting of that conversation follows:

-- "I decided to give the Walkabout a call to see what I could find out.  I spoke with Jack, and he assured me that they were turning away everyone that night, not just the Marines.
He also said that they've been having a terrible weekend.  I'm so very happy about that because it shows that even in the U.K. (where they are not as patriotic and troop supportive as the U.S.) when you offend the troops who are fighting for our lives, you pay for it. 
I tentatively suggested that the Walkabout do something supportive of the troops to show that they care about them and this was all a mistake - Jack said there was a big meeting with corporate soon to decide that very thing.  We'll see, I guess."

I'd like to add that Jack said that the Marines showed up at 10 minutes to 2:00 in the morning - 2:00 am being their closing time - and that the bar was turning everyone away.  This strikes me as odd for two reasons:
1. The articles say that the Marines were turned away not long after the funeral of their fallen soldier.  Jack says it was 2:00 am. 
2. I've had experience with RMs, and though they are proud to wear their beautiful blues when the occasion calls for it, they absolutely dislike wearing them otherwise.  The uniforms are hot and heavy, quite uncomfortable.  I wasn't there to witness any of this, but the Royal Marines I know don't run around town in their dress blues.  Not for long anyway. 

Jack also said (when I asked) that the Walkabout would let uniformed soldiers in, and that they were "for the military."  This is in direct opposition to the corporate office's official statement that has appeared in all of the articles:

-- "Furthermore, Walkabout in Liverpool has a strict policy of refusing entry to anyone in uniform due to previous issues with uniformed customers. These policies are designed solely to increase the safety and comfort of all our customers.

"Two of the group were in uniform and doorstaff believed that other members of the group were behaving aggressively, so they were refused admission."

The spokesman offered his condolences to Cpl Nowak's friends, comrades and family and offered the group who were turned away a complimentary lunch. He stressed the soldiers must not be in uniform."

I have personally emailed most of the contact emails on the Walkabout website, including the Liverpool branch, [email protected]. Haven't received an answer yet, but it was late England time when I wrote.  If I do hear back from anyone, I will certainly post it.
I encourage anyone who has the time to email as well - let them know we don't just stand up for "our" guys!

*** 11/28/06 Update ***
Heard back from Walkabout via email, seems they are flip-floppers:

-- "Thank you for your recent correspondence concerning the incident that took place at Walkabout Liverpool last week.  We have received a large number of emails on this matter and we will be reviewing them in the days that follow.
In order to provide you with a speedy response to your email, we sincerely hope that you will accept this open email as an explanation of the specific circumstances surrounding the recent incident in Liverpool and clarification of the company's policy towards uniformed service personnel.

The Licensing Act of 2003 places clear responsibility upon all of our venue teams to ensure that all of our customers can enjoy a safe experience.  The careful screening of customers at the door entry point is critical to achieving this objective.  Nevertheless, Walkabout does not have a nationwide policy concerning the admittance of uniformed service personnel.  On any given night and at any given venue our door team, in consultation with the general manager on duty, is asked to make a judgement on safety grounds as to whether it is appropriate or not to admit any customer.

On the night in question, our door staff took the decision to refuse entry to the group in light of specific incidents that had taken place in the city that evening.  Regrettably, in our experience, some members of the public do not always respond favourably to service personnel drinking whilst in uniform.  To help put this recent incident into context, in the past six months the Liverpool Walkabout has had three incidents where the safety of both uniformed service personnel and other customers was compromised.  Additionally, in October 2005 a serviceman (in civilian clothing) was involved in an incident which sadly resulted in his death.

We deeply regret that this incident has caused considerable upset to you, Cpl Nowak's family, friends, comrades and all British servicemen.  We are extremely respectful of the work carried out by our service personnel at home and overseas.
We sincerely hope that you appreciate our position."

Once they make up their minds, I will STILL not be using their services.  You can "regret" it all you want, but until I see Walkabout make an effort to SUPPORT their troops, I'm out.

Comment update - for those who didn't see in the comments in my earlier post - Charlie, a Royal Marine Commado wife (he has just left to serve in Afghanistan) and author of Baby Life Dog Days  noted this:
"Walkabout have a rep for this, I know my 'royal' and his mates have been turned away from local ones because they looked too 'military.'"

Classy.

A HUGE thank you to Grim from Blackfive for getting the word out.  It is much appreciated!!  Really!

View Part III right here

Comments

[Pat]

'Regrettably, in our experience, some members of the public do not always respond favourably to service personnel drinking whilst in uniform'.
Then surely it should be the members of the public who should be evicted?

[Anthony]

Regrettably, in my experience, it is those same people who also demand that military do something whenever their particular topic of interest is threatened.

I may be headed to the UK next summer as part of an exchange; if I do I'll be sure to stop by the Walkabout and let them know that I'll be spending large sums of my (exchanged at a sad rate) dollars for pounds on large quantities of bitter in another establishment.

[Kath]

You hit the nail on the head, Pat, that's exactly what I was thinking!
Anthony: Welcome and thanks for commenting! Thanks also, and more importantly, for your boycott of the Walkabout. I know the Royal Military appreciate it :o)

[Charles Epperson]

This reminds me of a lin from Kipling:

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country," when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
But Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!

[james]

Marines are “naval infantry”. Their Job was to Island hop and take ground. Then they would move on while the navy occupied the ground taken. Marines have no place being out there in the middle of the desert. They’er marines, naval infantry. They’er not the Army. The Army is the land force. If you expect Marines to police a province so far from their wittle boats you can expect them to lose.

[davod]

1. Is Walkabout an Australian company.

2. James, it is Royal Marine Commandos, not just Royal Marine.

They are primarily a commando force used wherever commandos are used.

The following description is taken from the RMC site

All Royal Marines, except those in the Royal Marines Band Service, are first and foremost, commando soldiers. They are required to undergo what is recognised as one of the longest and most demanding infantry training regimes in the world. This is undertaken at the Commando Training Centre Royal Marines at Lympstone, Devon in the West of England (.http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.2567).

[Kath]

Hello James and Davod! Welcome!

James: Sometimes it's difficult to tell the tone of a comment from reading, so I'm going to assume that you're not being sarcastic and demeaning towards some of the world's greatest fighting men, the Royal Marine Commandos. Davod is right, the Royal Marines are commandos, and are trained as such. They train in Norway, they train in Africa, they train with NATO forces, and they fight brilliantly wherever they are needed.

Davod: Here is what Walkabout says about themselves on their site: "The venues are authentically Australian, rather than loosely themed. Managers tend to be from Australia and our wines and a lot of our beers are from there, too."
They can only be found in the U.K.
Thank you for providing James the link, it saved me from doing it :o)

Nice to meet you guys.

[Anthony]

James,
Please review current USMC FMF doctrine. I would recommend begining with the Maneuver Warfare Handbook. In addition please also review the theories on 4th generation warfare and the OODA loop as developed by John Boyd and William Lind. Having done so, you will find that Naval Infantry doctrine has changed considerably out of necessity.

Mindsets that limit an organizations capabilities to inflexible concepts of appropriate doctrine and an unwillingness to evolve are what result in failure.

Have a nice day.

[Royal Blue]

That's awful about the two marines getting turned away after the funeral! You would think these people would have some respect and I really can't imagine it being as late as 2am as the guys I know just wouldn't be able to wear their dress blues out and about like that! My guy wore his to a wedding and had to get changed just for the reception it was so hot - let alone a crowded, busy club!

Where 42 cdo are based is quite good most of the pubs and clubs make a living off of the services and some even let them in for free if they show their forces card but up where 40 cdo are based there are so many places where marines have been banned for 'causing trouble' that they are either refused entry straight away or they are later kicked out if they are recognised as being a Royal Marine!

I've never heard of the Walkabout where I am refusing entry to people in uniform however if there's even the slightest bit of trouble in there it is always the military guys who get told to leave first even when they've had no involvement in things at all! They also get turned away for silly things such as wearing the wrong type of clothing on certain nights (trainers and football shirts etc) even though they seem to relax rules like this for most other people!